Clubsport DD/DD+ Peak Torque

Hi,


Based on the graph of the DD+ webpage, assuming the scale is correct, is it correct that the Clubsport DD is around 19 Nm of peak torque, and the clubsport DD+ around 25 ?

Comments

  • Allan LehtlaAllan Lehtla Member
    edited November 21

    Boosted Media when he open that dd, he show that there is a 300 mhz ATSAME70Q21

    im assuming that what this graph shows at here, the response time, what is way faster then at they other products, i not sure how much difference user self feel but 300 vs 70 mhz there are huge difference self


    what means by default to user, this device is way much better than moza if goes small details in race track like tiny rocks or sand, if game supports that of course

  • edited November 21

    What you see in that graphs is the so called "Overshoot" Peak which no human can feel as the Overshoot usually happens in the first 50 ms of force ramp-up, the biggest Overshoot even in the first 3-5 ms and a human starts to feel pain after around 70 ms and something like force even only after around 100 ms.

    Maximum Peak Overshoot Torque is the maximum torque output reached in the first cycle of the overshoot (happening in the first 3-5 ms). This value is always greater than the "real" Peak torque of the Wheel Base when operated in PEAK mode. Maximum Peak Torque on the other hand is the settling peak output torque achieved after the Maximum Peak Overshoot. Maximum Peak Torque measured at the point where the transient’s damped oscillations reach and stay within +/- 2% of the steady-state value. Holding torque (can also be referred as Constant torque) is the stable state of the Wheel Base achieved after the maximum peak. Holding torque does not vary with time. 

    Therefore the Overshoot is no valid "real" Peak Force.

    After already around 50 ms the Force settled down to 12 Nm on CS DD and 15 Nm on CS DD+ and then is constant from then on.

    That is the force a human can feel.

    Therefore proper Peak Forces are 12 Nm and 15 Nm - so Peak Torque is the same as the Holding Torque on these Bases (which is a very positive thing!).

    There are other competitor products which actively advertise their Peak with the Overshoot without calling this Overshoot. This is either misleading as a customer cant feel the stronger Overshoot force or the settling on these products is worse and you have force fluctuations the moment a human can feel the force which is also something you dont want to have as you want the same Peak force everytime and not sometimes for example 16 Nm and then in the next lap 14 Nm because the moment you feel the fluctuation curve was on its "down" because it did not settled properly yet. That's the reason why in the Boosted Media Review for example the CS DD Bases are compared to stronger bases because the bases which have equivalent Torque are in reality often less powerful than advertised and when measured the same way the CS DD bases are stronger than equally advertised bases and same strength as higher advertised bases for example.

  • Boosted Media also talked general that this days all devices are kind off good, but i want to say something extra for this ,hardware cpu speed does make difference for small details, slow cpu simply can skip some data as it's not fast enough.

    i not sure why fanatec self not tell this that they started use 300 mhz cpu and i needed find this out from 3 party media.

  • while you look the torgue , i look totally different data and what i see that clupsport dd is way better than others brands

    and im assuming that this comes from that 300 mhz cpu

  • Beware manufacturer graphs and theoretical discussions.

    All this stuff about peaks, hysteresis and overshoot is fine in theory but means little in practice.

    If you are setting up your wheelbase to hold anywhere near its peak torque you will already be at risk of clipping. Why? Because when operating at or near peak torque because you will have little or zero headroom for transient effects, like bumps, kerbs or changes in steering input - the important stuff! Ideally, you want to be operating well below the theoretical max strength of the wheelbase at all times whether, this is classed as peak, holding or overshoot so that it always has reserve strength for transient effects.

    The limiting factor in wheelbase reaction time contrary to internet wisdom is rarely hardware slew rates and more often game FFB refresh rate. Which is why the reality is that all modern DD's when set up properly feel similar. This shouldn't and won't stop people from having there own favourites of course but be cautious when reading manufacturers claims that they have unlocked the holt grail.

  • some refers rate limits may come also from game fps self

  • @Maurice Böschen : Thank you for this complete answer and for the more in-depth information !


    @Allan Lehtla : Hope that you're true and that make the CS DD a great wheelbase :)


    @Gagaryn . : Right, but some technical details for our technical toys doesn't hurt anyway :)


    Coming from a CSL DD 8 NM, I had a long hesitation between CS DD and some others brands (VRS in particular). I generally buy what I think good for me, never mind the brand. But at the end of the day, the software (ty Maurice for your profiles !), the kind of plug&play of Fanatec ( what ever the game, it works great without headache), and the price decide me for this CS DD. Of course, as everybody, I'm a little bit annoy with the 3 weeks more of delivery, but I don't forget it's just a toy, so hope it will be great when it comes (hope it will be before christmas ! :) )

  • i not know if its great but in hardware view 300 mhz cpu speed does have allot more room at small details than 70 mhz self.

    that similarity may compare like if you play with 70hz monitor or 300 hz one

  • I have ordered the new csl dd i hope Tinus better than the dd pro 8nm😊

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