Objective Realistic FFB and Wheel settings (CSL DD)
Aleksei Petrov
Member
Hi there,
I wonder what would be the objective and realistic settings for the Force Feedback that have no purpose of making you faster and that are not based on somebody's liking. I've noticed there are tons of suggestions and videos on YouTube from very respectable authors that claim that they found the best settings for Forza or they explain the fundamentals of each setting - but the fact that they all come up with different results, often opposite to each other, tells me that none of them speak objectively. Otherwise they would all come up with the same conclusion.
I tried many of those suggested best settings and picked the ones I "like" that I even posted on this forum as Recommended but I still have doubts in the truthfulness of those settings at least considering that they heavily use the Center Spring Scale that is rumoured to be an artificial effect that has nothing to do with suspension physics.
So having a simple goal - to explore and enjoy the variety of iconic cars, willing to experience their characters and peculiarities as they are, and NOT the wheel settings that someone thinks should be "optimal" or simply likes - what would be the most transparent and neutral settings that would convey the actual car behaviour that is based on the car's design and not the FFB settings? When you simply want to enjoy driving and feeling different cars as they are to the extent that's allowed by the sim.
Target setup - CSL DD 8nm, X-Box Series X, WRC wheel
Comments
What you're searching for doesn't exist. There are no objective "best" or "most realistic" FFB settings. The cars' behavior is programmed into the game according to how the developers think they should feel, which itself is a subjective action. Sure, it's based off of real world data, but how that data is interpreted and then implemented is the subjective part.
Sim racers then interpret this interpretation, and make things feel how *they* think is intended or desirable.
Best you can do is understand the functions available to you on your wheel, implement them to suit your own tastes, and just have fun.
Agree. Well I guess the best bet would be to pick up a car that you have a real world experience of driving (having no mods) and try to replicate that feeling in the game, assuming that if you nail that one car, it would be a more solid step towards realism of these settings even for all other cars - considering that they are programmed relatively consistently in the game (not the same). Since if you pick up a car to tune FFB that naturally has a heavy numb steering, that is also programmed into the game that way, but you have no idea about it and dial the steering to your own taste, making it less heavy lets say - such assumption would make the steering even more unnaturally lite for all other cars that have it lighter in the real world and the code with these settings.
Sadly my daily driver isn't in the game =) So I was hoping if someone could come up with the settings based on their experience of driving their cars both in the game and real world, and tune the settings to reflect their actual experience rather than liking. Chances are if you match one piece closely, and if most of the cars in the game are programmed in consistent relation to each other, then you'd match the rest as well. Theoretic, yes, but I still hope to find those, since I'm already having fun with what I have - just wanted to get some authenticity to the experience, not just excitement =)
By the way, does the game even consider or simulate that some cars have power steering, some don't?
For example, I've never driven a car on a track and I've never experienced heavy understeer in real life that would threw me off the road. How would I know - if the steering actually gets abruptly lite when the front looses grip, or does it stay heavy and loaded? That would shed some light onto the Trail settings that some people set high, some people set low, etc
RF2, a game I've always snubbed, recently released a fantastic online racing system, and with it the BMW M2, the same car already present in ACC. So ACC's BMW simply doesn't brake or turn, it just wants to go straight, while the same car on RF2 doesn't really want to go straight without skidding. Same car, but completely different. Total understeer versus total oversteer. So it's hard to think that these games are actually simulators.
if talk about iracing what i try with one euro from fanatec, dallara not had power steering so yes at there you feel for sure difference.
not many game have this build in, if talk isi then allot games are based in they technology, so if they all use same stuff then you may never feel something like that in they games
even tho iracing is best off this what i ever feel about non power steering, 8NM steering wheel can't fully todo that what actually is in real live
because in reality those cars are around 21 Nm
When a car is starting to understeer you get a shuddering sensation as inertia , or the forward motion, starts to overcome the rolling friction of the tyre, and the tyre scrubbing becomes extreme, then the steering will go light once you have lost all rolling friction.
unfortunately not every game have that, so you may start feel this light when its already too late
Thank you for the reference! I ended up learning the FFB language in a practical way to understand what it's trying to tell me through the wheel. I set everything to zero including the wheel base, opened the telemetry and then started turning each individual parameter to 100 and driving with it, learning what those signals mean in relation to what is happening to the car, suspension, tires, etc. Quite an educating experience to clearly see and feel the distinction between the layers of the meaningful signals that are overlayed on top of each other that you can still hear as separate "words" that actually mean something =)
Now I wonder what role the Wheel base parameters could play that are added on top independently of the game data, like Damper, Friction and Inertia. I understand what they can do but is there a place or need for them in the picture that's already being drawn by the game?
I've got your point. I'm in the same boat. Trying to find 'Ideal" FFB settings. Even though I agree with Gregg Domain this does not exist. Moreover, all FFB in sims are not realistic, because they are trying to replicate forces, that are not present or are not very strong on the real car steering wheel, like Seat of Pants (SOP) and G-forces. Otherwise you will not feel these forces and could not understand the car's behavior.
When I started to look for good FFB settings for this game, I also found that all the users have completely different settings, and they are respectable authors. I have noticed that some settings had tendency to be similar, for example they all tend to remove the damping and center spring effect. This means that these default settings are off from the box and all users noticed that.
What I did is created a spreadsheet table and looked at these settings together. I calculated the mathematical average values and tried them in the game. And, you know, surprisingly it worked out! You can laugh, but I like them. Probably because it represents overall tendency. Also the spreadsheet shows the deviation and offset from default values, which shows the most controversial settings, for example the Road Feel Scale has more deviation than others, some users max it out, while others turn it completely down. This is a matter of preference.
Here is my topic:
https://forum.fanatec.com/discussion/28388/forza-motorsport-fanatec-user-settings-db
Its helpful to use audio systems as an anology. The FEI, FOR, SPR and DPR settings are the channels in the SDK that the developers use to send parts of the FFB output of the game to the wheel base for different effects. Some devs use some or all of these, and let the wheel base mix the signal, which allows us to tune on the base. Others “mix” the signal more in game. Think individual instrument and vocal tracks in a studio session.
INT, NIN, NFR are filters that are applied to the signal after it reaches the wheelbase to allow us to tune the overall behavior of the wheel. Think tone controls adjusting the flavor of the playback
The main FFS setting is the master volume control on the base controlling the overall mix
Only INT and FEI are filters. INT adds "steps" to low-resolution FFB, while FEI smooths the "spikes" of the FFB signal. FEI is the most interesting filter, especially to use in those slightly dated games that transmit cogging, but also to clean the signal from fast artificial effects and leave a FFB very oriented towards slow effects, such as load transfers.
NIN and NFR together with NDP are additional effects, they are superimposed on the signal, adding simulated effects, in order, steering wheel weight, rack friction and dampers. Personally I leave them all at zero.
Alesandro - thx yes I mispoke about INT and you are correct on that, as I brain faded on NDP which along with NIN and NFR are as you say effects added by the base not the game. But I’m pretty sure FEI is part of the data sent from the game - mostly road effects and curbs. F1 23 uses FEI for that purpose and I think GT7 does as well. I can turn it up/down and those game effects vary directly. Again thx
I assure you that FEI is "the filter". It's the equivalent of the Sharpness option on our monitors. FEI is the one that does the magic, it is the most underrated and important option. How edgy do you want your image pixels to be? Do you want the image to be very sharp? Sharpness 100. Do you want it to be very fuzzy? Sharpness 0. Do you want it to look natural? Sharpness adjustment.
The parameters that come from the game are STR, DPR and SPR. They are a sort of "equalizer" of the FFB. A mixer of the raw values coming from the game.
I drive lot's of street cars (small city car, touring, station wagon, sports, etc) and NO ONE of those has over 2-3 Nm, during driving.
They have a little over when they are at 0mph, but It's of no intetest, unless you are using a parking simulator...Or if you are simulating an old 50s big chunk without powersteer.
Track sports cars, like rally cars, GT etc, have ALL powerstering, so also those don't have huge FFB...almost all have up to 5-6-7 Nm
A drift car is the same: I drive an M2 with 800+bhp and the wheel feels like my CSL DD @5-7Nm , even less.
BTW, if you go against a concrete wall, surely you will have more and more Nm on the real wheel, but unless you use a crash simulator, this is not a big deal.
So, realistic FFB is, in the most, a "weak" FFB. And in real life, if you try to focus ONLY on the FFB of the wheel, you will see that from the steer, we receive very little informations about the car.