CSL LC stiffness (issue?)
Patrick de Groot
Member
in Pedals
Hi all,
Recently I installed the new CSL load cell kit to my CSL pedal set., but so far it is a big upset. I am really struggling with the stiffness of it. I am just not able to push it any further than 2 cm or so when I try to apply full force. I've created a short video to show what I mean: https://youtu.be/3nR7QeaxkNg
Wondering now if it is me not able to push hard enough and/or the fact that I do not use a fixed sim rig? Or this is some kind of manufacturing error? If I have a look at other videos of people using it, they are able to push it way further than I can. So is there a way to fix it maybe?
Happy to hear your thoughts.
Comments
Its a mix of both - Yes, they are super duper stiff by design but its you not pushing hard enough but that most likely comes because its not mounted to a proper Simrig.
I have the same problems with them mounted on a wheelstand where I can only barely push them. Mounted on proper Simrig and I can push them a lot easier.
Take sometime to get use to them. Make sure your seat is secure.
Having the same problem, I tried to use some foam to replace the rubber elastomers but not good so I just had to re-learn the pressure I need to get the pedals to work.
I've just posted a reply regarding the stiffness of the CSL load cell in another pedal topic, but unfortunately the only solution I personally could find was to return them and go back to the standard brake. The hardness of load cell pedals were just no fun to use to me and I was really disappointed.
I know this isn't the answer you probably want- but until there are some alternative rubber spacers to swap the supplied ones with - I don't think any solution will be satisfactory other than trying to get used to them and using shoes to apply more force instead of using socks (neither of which I was prepared to do).
Fortunately this made me think of ways to make the standard brake a bit better, and I did come up with a useful easy way, which was to just fill in the hole in the foam to make it's compression stiffer- by slotting in a couple of M8 nuts (anything harder than the foam will do though).
I also removed the little gap between the tip of the foam and metal brake arm with a 3-4mm spacer/wedge which removed that initial bit of slack before the pedal hits the foam. Both of these tweaks made me much happier with the standard brake and it's stiffness now feels somewhere inbetween the stock foam and load cell.
Again, sorry I cant help your main problem with the load cell, but hopefully my idea might help if you choose to put the original brake back on.
Without a fixed SIM rig it is almost impossible to use a loadcell brake, doesn't matter what brand you buy. You have to find a way to secure the unit to the floor and/or wall. Hope you succeed.
yeah. if you do not have a rig then pls do only get the csl pedals. the one with 2 pedals.
if you have a rig or someway to secure the pedals and seat, then the lc kit is better as i find it easier to find the right brake pedal position using pressure rather than the actual position of the pedals, if you get what i mean.
i am currently using some after market elastomers which are softer than the 'black' onces than came with the lc kit pedals
the black one on the left is the original that i have swapped with a blue. the yellow and red ones are harder than the black. the brown and green ones are only foam and are much softer than even the blue. thanks to bbj simracing.
still testing them out. 😉
Thanks everyone for all your input and comments. I don't have the opportunity to fix them on the floor or wall. Will try some of the suggestions in this post, or otherwise sell the LC unfortunately.
the same here. for me the pedal is not usable in my rig. the pedal travel is way too short. with the least BRF i get ca. 0,5cm pedal travel to achieve maximum braking effect, and with max BRF ca. 1cm. when i watch videos on youtube (with pre-production samples), everyone can push the pedal much, much further. with this short pedal travel, it is impossible for me to precisely dose the brake.
i suspect the first production rubber dampers were softer than the current batch.
i am not happy to have bought these pedals :(
try them out for awhile. adjust the BRF higher. your legs muscle memory will work better with pressure rather than position.
yes, but with 100% BRF setting i get only 1cm pedal travel until the maximum braking effect is reached. this is not what i have seen in all the review-videos and this is not what i expect from a brake pedal. if I use a BRF driver setting of about 70% that is comfortable for me, then i get a pedal travel of only about 7-8 mm. that's absurdly short.
i watched Patrick de Groot's video above, and my pedal travel is significantly shorter than his.
i suspect production fluctuations in the rubber dampers. there is no other way i can explain such drastic differences between review videos, patrick video and my product.
What exactly do you mean by "until the maximum braking effect is reached"?
when the vertical bar for the braking effect hits the top (100% is reached) in the fanatec control panel (pedals values).
sorry, i don't speak english very well and i use google translator.
Did you actually measured the travel or that one centimeter is by feeling?
Here is another very unsatisfied owner of the CSL load cell kit. Like others are reporting, I am only getting about 1/2 centimeter travel. It's totally unusable without firmly attached to a rig, which I don't have. Even then it's I suspect it is less than ideal. Chris Hayes' video back from November last year (https://youtu.be/Xu4eurLbv-0) showed significantly more travel than I'm able to achieve.
I also have the load cell kit.
The pedals are very heavy and I can't use them without a sim rig. With my hand and my weight (116 kg) I was only able to push it in about 1 cm with enormous effort.
I found a tip on the internet to solve the problem.
A compression spring.
https://www.amazon.de/ALLNICE-Lichtlast-Pressform-Sterben-Fr%C3%BChling/dp/B07MCRGBZ4/ref=sr_1_2?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&crid=2B9V3ZDYESI6M&keywords=allnice%2B5%2Bst%C3%BCck%2B16%2Bod%2B35mm&qid=1646481173&sprefix=allnice%2B5%2Bst%C3%BCck%2B16%2Bod%2B35%2Bmm%2Caps%2C90&sr=8-2&th=1
The removal of the original load cell kit was very difficult. Almost impossible with your fingers.
So I got it out with a hammer handle.
Then I installed the spring.
Now I have a pedal travel of about 2.5 cm.
I haven't installed the pedal yet as I will be installing a spring for the gas pedal.
The gas pedal is too easy for me.
I hope to have helped some who don't have a sim rig.
Hi guys, me too I find the new load cell to stiff and hard. The pedal movement is realistically very very short. It feels like braking on a piece of wall!
I had the old CSL version and it was definitely more realistic. Not 100% happy for now...
I got mine yesterday and I am also having stiffness issues. I have a pretty heavy wheel stand and I understand that a rig would be best for this, but it doesn't make sense to have to lift my left to push this thing in like I'm doing a leg press at the gym. Leaning against it with my weight even gets about 1cm travel.
I've watched reviewers test this pedal out and they are just using ankle strength to press the pedal in and getting way more travel. Chris Hayes as someone mentioned above is a great example of this. You can see the pedal traveling and rubber compressing in the pedal in his video. It's impossible to do get the same effect with mine.
Actually with load cell you do not need to worry or think about pedal travel. It is all about pressure on the pedal. Set a pressure that you are comfortable to effect 100% brake output and still able to modulate. After practicing for awhile, you will know how much pressure to release to correctly modulate.
But if you prefer pedal positioning for brake then, each their own. There are aliens out there who only use pedal position for throttle and brake. Everyone is different.
after a lot of experiments, i found a working solution for me. i have tested many materials, springs, elastomers, etc. ...everything is of course very subjective and everyone has to find a solution that feels right for them. my problem with the original condition was not only the ultra short pedal travel (less than 10 mm), but above all that i could no longer do controlled and sensitive trail braking.
if you experiment yourself, consider that you need materials that spring back without delay and with sufficient counterforce for good trail braking. foam (as some recommend) is unsuitable. all the elastomers i tested were either too hard, too soft or of poor quality so that they don't retain their resilience for long. an inexpensive solution that i found right at the beginning was fitness resistance band like this:
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07QFWBFMD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
i had such thick straps at home anyway, cut them up, drilled holes in them and pushed them onto the rod instead of the original elastomers. fitness resistance band are made from natural latex material that springs back well for a long time without tiring ((but be careful not to contact it with ultraviolet rays, sunlight for a long time).
but i wasn't 100% satisfied with the solution of just taking only these snippets from the resistance band. it worked, but it looked ugly and my trail braking wasn't fully controlled. i missed the fine dosing between the 80% and 100% braking effect.
of the many springs i tested, the best one was really the blue spring recommended by franz simbürger above (thanks very much franz!)
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07MCRGBZ4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
well i have built a combination that works for me personally almost perfectly. it's a little too soft for my taste, but the pedal travel is ideal, the rebound is powerful and fast without delay and my trail braking is 100% controlled again. the order is from bottom to top:
the two original washers (large and small), the original black spacer made of hard plastic, one original elastomere, one steel washer, two two pieces of resistance band (i used this so that the steel spring is not pressed against the stop so quickly), one steel washer, one blue steel spring, one steel washer
i hope this helps some.
I have used the yellow foam thing from the old brake and replaced one of the black things from the LC and it feels a million times better. Just a bit more travel to gauge trail braking with. The out the box stiffness is absurd imo.
I totally agree. The Fanatec Loadcell brake is not well thought out at all. The feeling is NOTHING like AP 6 pot brakes, Brembo 4 pot, Nissin 4pot, Honda sliding caliper, Servo assisted or none assisted regular brakes. The G29 brake pedal feels more realistic if I compare it to the real cars that I own and drive regularly. I am about to try my own spring / rubber packing solutions like Uwe has done. For the price of the pedal its absurd that we have to try and make it right!!
@David Chieng you are correct about the load cell in that it measures the pressure applied (like a scale you use to weigh yourself) and not the travel distance of the pedal. However, if this is the case then why have a pedal that travels at all? Why did fanatec even put elastomer rings and created a pedal that moves? They could have just as easily made a solid metal pedal that has zero travel which can still measure the pressyre applied (just like your scale measures your weight without movement). I'll tell you why, it's because Fanatec created these pedals and other products to be used as part of a simulator that simulates real driving. I don't know how aliens drive cars in tatooine but on earth our brake pedals for our real cars actually travel more than 4mm.
With that being said everyone who has this problem, like I do, with the pedals having almost no travel can adjust to learn the pressure force applied each time to break. I admit it makes trail braking precision much more difficult but it can be learned. I just wish Fanatec would read these messages and help address this issue since it is clear that this is a quality control problem since some load cell pedals sold have better elastomer rings than others (such as the one Chris Hayes has). It seems to me with such high demand on this new GT DD PRO since December, they've been pumping out as many orders as possible and the quality may have taken a hit. Im curious how many of the people who have this issue also bought their CSL Load Kit sometime in the past 4 months and how many got it with their CSL DD (not GT DD Pro) before December?
I have to say I am extremely disappointed with Fanatec. I have completely bought into their whole ecosystem just to be disappointed by the load cell as well as my recently arrived club sport shifter which seems to "misfire" and register different gears without me touching it. I'm going to contact customer support to see about an RMA or a possible refund.
Got my load cell last month and found the pedal far too stiff. I bought the hybrid mod kit from 3drap that now makes the pedal a pleasure to use.
https://www.3drap.it/product/fanatec-csl-elastomer-brake-mod-csl-pedals-lc/
Thank you. I saw your post on other forum posts as well. I think I want to go for one. Im still confused about the difference between the full and regular. I understand progressive and linear. Im guessing progressive is the one that feels most like a real brake because it gets stiffer as u push more. And linear is just a constant force throughout.
Which one did u use/recommend? I definitely will try it out.
P.S. I wish Fanatec would sell this mod as a stand alone add-on. That way it won't affect their pricing for the low cost load cell pedal and for those who are unhappy at least have recourse aside from ripping our hair out.
Thanks again!
The Idea with the Spring from @Franz Simbürger is brilliant.
Its working perfect. Thx for the Tip.
I bought the hybrid kit which is 1 linear + 1 progressive. TBH I've just been using the progressive one recently. I'd recommend getting the hybrid kit, that way you have three options to try and see what feels best for you.
I went ahead and bought 2xLinear and 2XProgressive <<<<<< That way I can try Linear, Progressive, Full Linear, Full Progressive & Hybrid.
Verdict: I have tried them all now (it arrived very quickly all the way from Italy) and I have to say they worked extremely well. I think Hybrid and Full Linear (2XLinear) feel the most realistic and help tremendously with trail breaking. This is why it's weird that I'm going to say this: I actually started missing the old 60Kg original black ones provided by Fanatec. I don't know if it is because I got used to the hard and stiff pedal that doesn't even move, but I found that my braking was off. I figured it's probably because I need to get used to the new brakes. So I'm going to give them a go for about a month and will see how it goes.
For anyone on the fence about getting these, I can't comment on the spring solution posted above but these yellow thingies are fantastic. If you think the load cell elastomer provided by Fanatec is way too stiff, I 100% suggest you try these. I also think Fanatec could have easily sold a similar product on their page. It would cost them almost nothing to produce, and they could sell it completely separate from the Load Cell Kit itself so as to not affect the price of the pedal for other customers who are fine with it as is.
I will report back after I try these for a month if anyone is interested. ✌️
I am deciding between Full Linear or Hybrid, what's your opinion about the two?
To say I’m disappointed is an understatement, I got mine today and after setting this up I discovered the breaking problem. Literally no travel whatsoever! Also for some weird reason the throttle wasn’t working. To think I paid 1k for this garbage product. I am creating an RMA tomorrow and if fanatic dares to piss me off I’m going straight to a PayPal claim.
they have literally taken the piss with the load cell pedals. Had I known this issue I’d never have bought it.
Chun Fung Lo, if you can you should do what I did and buy one full linear and one full prigressive. That way you can try all 5 options (linear, full linear, progressive, full progressive and hybrid) and see what feels best. If you dont feel like buying 2 then the one I suggest is hybrid. That way you will be able to try 3 combinations (hybrid, linear and progressive). The "full" just doubles the elastomers and amplifys that specific option.
Dereck Kwakye, I fully understand your rage (I was there last week). I got this set and was so excited to have a direct drive wheel for only $1k. I did not at all imagine there would be any issues. I had problems with the gas pedal, the shifter i bought was mis-shifting, the clutch was working on and off and the load cell is super stiff. I've had time to calm down and re-check my steps and I've solved all the issues aside from the load cell being too stiff. They were all things due to me not following proper instructions. Now im not saying that's whats happening with you but before you get into an RMA mess, you should make sure everything is plugged properly and that you take your wheel base and plug it into a pc (not PS5), download the relevant fanatec software and perform a driver update (which will update the pedals as long as they and any other fanatec hardware is plugged into the base). Doing the firmware update on a pc solved all my problems, but like I said it may not solve yours. As for the cell load kit, its a bit stiff but like I said in my post above I actually found a solution that works very well yet I still think I'm going to go back to the original stiff one provided by fanatec. The reason is since the load cell works on pressure and my cockpit is rigid enough to handle it, it just feels like I have more control with the stiff pedal (as wierd as that sounds). However, I also think Fanatec could simply provide a solution similar to the one I found to accommodate everyone's taste and it wouldn't cost them anything. Instead they're on the defensive explaining to everyone that this is the way it should be, etc. Just provide these extra elastomers as an add-on even and leave the onus on the customer to choose their braking style. Those yellow elastomers I got did the trick in terms of increasing pedal travel.
With that being said I highly recommend you dont get rid of your set up. Get it working and if you need to, RMA. Everything is working for me now and I am having an absolutely incredible time playing Gran Turismo 7. I cannot imagine playing this on another wheel or on controller. If you need any help let me know, I'd hate for you to miss out. Goodluck!
I have a rig with Clubsport V3 pedals and im used to use the brake pedal stiffness adjustment between 2 and 3, and brake force 40%, and its ok (reasonable travel, progressive feeling).
Now i built another rig with the new CSL LC pedals and im shocked! The stock elastomers of the brake pedal are completely ridiculous. Initially i thought that the pedal was defective, because it simply dont move at all. I can not believe how Fanatec engineering released a product like this. No real race car on earth has a brake pedal that feels like that.
After reading this thread, i tried some combinations of elastomers and springs and ended up using a 20mm yellow spring with 3 layers of my sacrificed good old soft blue flip flop 😂:
Come on Fanatec, for such a premium brand (even for its entry level product), you could at least provide alternative elastomers!