No you are comparing a manufacturer that only manufactures a entry level budget wheelbase to a manufacturer that doesn’t even have something in that price range and than call something inferior. It like buying a Fiat Panda and then complain that it doesn’t look like and performs like a Ferrari. Ending a discussion with “talking to a wall” is the easy way out, we both know that if there is one thing that Fanatec is not performing like it should it’s on the software, firmware, driver part. They make great hardware but the whole software part has huge room for improvement.
Hardware and support wise I didn’t have anything to complain... well a broken bearing in a CSW base and twice a hardware issue with a Formula V2 within half a year after purchase isn’t impressive quality wise but they fixed it quite quickly.
Long story short, calling something inferior and then comparing it to something that costs twice as much is not only funny but also plain wrong. Especially when the stuff you are comparing it to is everything but flawless also. I would say check out the last beta thread how Fanatec is performing, if that means A class performances he phrase “German quality” is just as much worth as the “True Force” claims Logitech is making ;)
G29 costs around 250 euro here, a CSL elite F1 bundle around 649 I think (they aren’t available here in Europe at the moment). A price difference of 400 euro, that’s quite a bit ;)
Depends man.... Like you said... You cannot compare the entry level of a panda and the entry level of a ferrari. so compare the G923 with the CSL Elite + (note even the v1.1). This is why I compered the models above. ;)
Or else we would compare the g25 with the first ever fanatec 911 RS or how it was called back them as their first product. 😇
So price wise the comparison above is fair and covering all 3 platforms I think (pc,ps,xbox). 😇
Again I am comparing only prices so we are not talking about 1/3 that you mentioned in previous post. If you do then yes. But G25 is proving NOWHERE close to the feeling or feedback or setting the CSL does. Does this factor count or are we only price oriented? Asking cause I have a FIAT and I am ready to call and complain to Ferrari. 😋
For the software, and feeling/feedback + customer service other people did in previous posts.
And YES.... Fanatec lacks massively on support but I do really hope they will someday (preferably soon 🤞) sort it out.
Don't forget.... The products from Fanatec requires a lot of user interference and most of the problems are because of users have done something wrong while updating (only a few are genuine fcuk' ups from the software it self) or setting up or simply they cannot tune in the preferred settings.
It's fine for the Logitech wheels to be inferior, because they are cheaper! It would be hilarious, if the Logitech wheels would be the better product overall, then no one would be buying Fanatec stuff for example!
That's what I mean by talking "against" and not "to" a wall.
A G923 is a Logitech G29 the difference is the price tag and the logitech marketing bs around it ;). What I’m trying to say is that you can’t compare them and calling something inferior while it operates in a whole different market at a whole different price point doesn’t make any sense.
And that most is related to user errors I agree, most of them are but it’s not like Fanatec has a flawless track record when it comes to software development where some progress has been made over time but they are still way behind other manufacturers in this price range. See the last beta release where Fanatec need 3 releases to get some really obvious errors out that shouldn’t have been in a release anyway. Those where a good example of “not so good” quality control on the software side ;)
I am, the thing i dong agree about is calling something inferior and saying that it’s “easier” for a product like the G25/29/923 or whatever version you would like to pick to develop firmware for and getting features to work that Fanatec couldn’t get to work. Those are assumptions based on an “educated guess” and not on facts.
So i certainly don’t disagree on you with the fact that a CSL performs way better in terms of force feedback and hardware quality but calling a G29 an inferior product is i bridge to far if you ask me.... maybe inferior has a different meaning in Germany than it has a in the Netherlands.
Fact is that Logitech seems to be able to get things working which Fanatec claims to be as something impossible because of the limitations from Microsoft side, which is kinda strange because you would assume Logitech probably has to deal with the same limitations ;)
Maybe it’s the language barrier but long story short Fanatec should pick up the game regarding software development because the software is anything but on par with their capabilities of producing high end hardware. And I’m not only referring to the jolts on DD bases, the beta thread for the last driver / firmware update speaks for itself.
"It like buying a Fiat Panda and then complain that it doesn’t look like and performs like a Ferrari".
But a Fiat Panda is inferior to a Ferrari. You're losing me...
Although Fanatec probably bears more resemblance to a Lotus - especially if you are old enough to remember what owners used to joke that stood for (Lots Of Trouble, Usually Serious). Fanatec could be Firmware A Nightmare, And Tech (support) Eventually Communicate.
But you don’t buy a Ferrari for the amount of a Fiat Panda so making the comparison and then calling a Fiat Panda inferior isn’t fair, it’s like seeing things in perspective. Or is a Ferrari a inferior product when it comes down to fuel economy or cost of ownership ;-). But probably we all have roughly the same meaning, but understanding each other a bit wrong.
However a G29 and any Fanatec wheelbase that has Xbox compatibility you would expect they have the same limitations on the software part, so if Logitech is able to get things working you would expect Fanatec is able to do the same. And that a CSL is way better than a G29 on the hardware part I agree with everybody but that sure doesn’t make a G29 an inferior product regarding this (software related) part of the story.
The Lotus part however I understand fully... a few years ago I was looking for a Elise as a nice car to have on the side. Didn’t buy one because people warned every time I brought it up as an option and said it would be a bottomless money pit. Bought a Z3 M coupe.... guess what, bottomless money pit also 😂
Guys, I think we don't get any result whyle buzz on official forum.
We need to involve in this more public resources, like reddit, change.org and and official twitter account of Fanatec, Xbox and studios who dev and publish racing game on xbox.
Series X is one of the powerful console all of time. And limited support of all wheels features on xbox affected sales by simracers.
English is not my native language, but I'm support all created topic on all social platform. We need to draw attention to this problem by Microsoft. If they call back capability certificat from Fanatec, it also be win.
True, as soon as someone asks about future development, roadmaps or plans regarding open issues it remains awfully silent... or better said it’s ignored.
I asked developers, Dominic, support and some other people related to Fanatec about outstanding issues and as soon as future development or a timeline about open issues is brought up the conversation stops.
Apparently existing customers aren’t that important for Fanatec when it comes down to software development and DD users for example have to accept that they have a useless screen on their DD wheelbase, a screen that is sold as a feature on the product page but it in fact cripples the behaviour of the motor of the DD wheelbases.
Guys, we are losing the subject at hand. Logitech was referred to, just to point out they are capable of getting their extra button's, rev light and rotaries to work. That's the discussion, so lets stick to that. Fanatec still keeps quiet and ignores this and other issues like they are used to. I believe that is even more urgent to address. Main reason why Monik is spamming every possible thread, and me in a lesser way doing the same in a more mature way and trying to get their attention. Not very succesful however.
I still think this is a solid point and I will continue to defend it till we get a decent answer from fanatec and not one of their fan boys. And don't take this wrong, I'm a fanboy too, off their products. not of their customer service and the way they handle serious issues.
atleast on one or two points we can agree then. Issues not well handled, communication isn't great and customer service needs to get alot better overall.
You are going to grow old, gray hair (if not fallen) and walk using a stick until you will get such an answer. They will never tell you anything related to their tech stuff. Sorry.
It seems everyone is broadly accepting the main thrust of the original post.
Naturally my post brought us to the “how Logitech did it when Fanatec can’t” and “what Fanatec can do” topics - which is what we now seem to be getting caught up in, and fair enough. For me though, none of the actual technicalities matter unless Fanatec are a part of that conversation.
Rightly so, we all have our thoughts on this, and some of these may well be true: maybe Logitech are cleverer than Fanatec, their wheels are less complex making the software side easier, Logitech have better coders/resources, more money, a sympathetic ear at Microsoft, they’re making use of some kind of native higher input limit, they have a sorcerer - we won’t ever know, but whatever the real reason(s) might be, in the end, none of these thoughts explain the Fanatec reasoning provided to me and many other customers.
For me, the situation is simple: additional inputs can be achieved, and it’s now incumbent on Fanatec to confirm if they will work towards it, or provide some better answers about why they can’t achieve it, or don’t want to achieve it.
Fanatec can't even get all the features of their own products working properly. You are wasting your time here. You'd be better petitioning for more general investment in the software development, testing and support side of the business - once Fanatec are able to consistently release software that doesn't break things they could move on to extending feature sets and SDK.
At the moment development seems to be done by a couple of work experience schoolkids and testing done by a couple of well-meaning hobbyist amateurs. And the results speak for themselves.
It would be nice to see a blog post about the two things that would make the biggest improvement for customers -
1) how they will improve the support side of the business so that customers don't need to wait over a week for a reply to each email,
2) how they plan to implement a proper firmware development cycle so that we start to see regular roadmapped and properly tested new versions that start fixing the longstanding issues and don't introduce new issues.
Basic stuff, not sexy - but this is what people would value. Not a daft wheel that you can switch between your rig and your car.
But this does not seem to interest them as a company - they are consistently shortsighted, and it will backfire.
Something with a nail and hitting it on the head with a hammer...
Not sure why Fanatec isn't stepping up with software development, their DD bases are a wonderful piece of engineering and deserve some proper functioning software instead of the current state we are in at this moment.
Fanatec should just stop soliciting to console owners. stick to the pc world. cause your just ending up with a lot of angry and dissappointed customers. yea your stuff "works" but compatible is much too strong a word for what we are getting. your talking about people spending twice as much as the damn console on your gear just to find out its nothing close to what you expected
So I contacted support to ask about this issue, and while initially responding "We regret to inform you that not all special functions of Fanatec steering wheels are currently supported by the Xbox OS (RevLEDs, Display, additional vibration motors, Multi-Position-Switches, etc.). We hope that Microsoft implements these features as soon as possible in the future."
However, as you can see in their later response, they do actually have an SDK for game developers, and even provided me a link to access it. Stating "If you want to use the Fanatec SDK please contact our support team and mention what your plans are to use the SDK. After reviewing those plans you might receive a NDA which has to be signed before the SDK would be sent to you."
I don't know much about SDKs, but clearly game developers should be making use of this. However I assume they probably are and maybe it is still limited, eg WRC9's "official" wheel is the Fanatec WRC wheel. Yet these functions don't work on xbox!
She still did not get your question, right? But when do you start the course ‘game engineering’? 😜Or shall we start a fundraise for a developer to create a sdk.
Well, another 4 months past and still no sign of a possible solution. Oh yeah, we are talking with MS on a weekly bases about this and expect MS to come with a solution soon. Yeah, right.
Comments
No you are comparing a manufacturer that only manufactures a entry level budget wheelbase to a manufacturer that doesn’t even have something in that price range and than call something inferior. It like buying a Fiat Panda and then complain that it doesn’t look like and performs like a Ferrari. Ending a discussion with “talking to a wall” is the easy way out, we both know that if there is one thing that Fanatec is not performing like it should it’s on the software, firmware, driver part. They make great hardware but the whole software part has huge room for improvement.
Hardware and support wise I didn’t have anything to complain... well a broken bearing in a CSW base and twice a hardware issue with a Formula V2 within half a year after purchase isn’t impressive quality wise but they fixed it quite quickly.
Long story short, calling something inferior and then comparing it to something that costs twice as much is not only funny but also plain wrong. Especially when the stuff you are comparing it to is everything but flawless also. I would say check out the last beta thread how Fanatec is performing, if that means A class performances he phrase “German quality” is just as much worth as the “True Force” claims Logitech is making ;)
G29 costs around 250 euro here, a CSL elite F1 bundle around 649 I think (they aren’t available here in Europe at the moment). A price difference of 400 euro, that’s quite a bit ;)
Depends man.... Like you said... You cannot compare the entry level of a panda and the entry level of a ferrari. so compare the G923 with the CSL Elite + (note even the v1.1). This is why I compered the models above. ;)
Or else we would compare the g25 with the first ever fanatec 911 RS or how it was called back them as their first product. 😇
So price wise the comparison above is fair and covering all 3 platforms I think (pc,ps,xbox). 😇
Again I am comparing only prices so we are not talking about 1/3 that you mentioned in previous post. If you do then yes. But G25 is proving NOWHERE close to the feeling or feedback or setting the CSL does. Does this factor count or are we only price oriented? Asking cause I have a FIAT and I am ready to call and complain to Ferrari. 😋
For the software, and feeling/feedback + customer service other people did in previous posts.
And YES.... Fanatec lacks massively on support but I do really hope they will someday (preferably soon 🤞) sort it out.
Don't forget.... The products from Fanatec requires a lot of user interference and most of the problems are because of users have done something wrong while updating (only a few are genuine fcuk' ups from the software it self) or setting up or simply they cannot tune in the preferred settings.
are you even reading what I wrote?!
It's fine for the Logitech wheels to be inferior, because they are cheaper! It would be hilarious, if the Logitech wheels would be the better product overall, then no one would be buying Fanatec stuff for example!
That's what I mean by talking "against" and not "to" a wall.
We disagree, so why discuss this any further?
A G923 is a Logitech G29 the difference is the price tag and the logitech marketing bs around it ;). What I’m trying to say is that you can’t compare them and calling something inferior while it operates in a whole different market at a whole different price point doesn’t make any sense.
And that most is related to user errors I agree, most of them are but it’s not like Fanatec has a flawless track record when it comes to software development where some progress has been made over time but they are still way behind other manufacturers in this price range. See the last beta release where Fanatec need 3 releases to get some really obvious errors out that shouldn’t have been in a release anyway. Those where a good example of “not so good” quality control on the software side ;)
I am, the thing i dong agree about is calling something inferior and saying that it’s “easier” for a product like the G25/29/923 or whatever version you would like to pick to develop firmware for and getting features to work that Fanatec couldn’t get to work. Those are assumptions based on an “educated guess” and not on facts.
So i certainly don’t disagree on you with the fact that a CSL performs way better in terms of force feedback and hardware quality but calling a G29 an inferior product is i bridge to far if you ask me.... maybe inferior has a different meaning in Germany than it has a in the Netherlands.
Fact is that Logitech seems to be able to get things working which Fanatec claims to be as something impossible because of the limitations from Microsoft side, which is kinda strange because you would assume Logitech probably has to deal with the same limitations ;)
Maybe it’s the language barrier but long story short Fanatec should pick up the game regarding software development because the software is anything but on par with their capabilities of producing high end hardware. And I’m not only referring to the jolts on DD bases, the beta thread for the last driver / firmware update speaks for itself.
"It like buying a Fiat Panda and then complain that it doesn’t look like and performs like a Ferrari".
But a Fiat Panda is inferior to a Ferrari. You're losing me...
Although Fanatec probably bears more resemblance to a Lotus - especially if you are old enough to remember what owners used to joke that stood for (Lots Of Trouble, Usually Serious). Fanatec could be Firmware A Nightmare, And Tech (support) Eventually Communicate.
But you don’t buy a Ferrari for the amount of a Fiat Panda so making the comparison and then calling a Fiat Panda inferior isn’t fair, it’s like seeing things in perspective. Or is a Ferrari a inferior product when it comes down to fuel economy or cost of ownership ;-). But probably we all have roughly the same meaning, but understanding each other a bit wrong.
However a G29 and any Fanatec wheelbase that has Xbox compatibility you would expect they have the same limitations on the software part, so if Logitech is able to get things working you would expect Fanatec is able to do the same. And that a CSL is way better than a G29 on the hardware part I agree with everybody but that sure doesn’t make a G29 an inferior product regarding this (software related) part of the story.
The Lotus part however I understand fully... a few years ago I was looking for a Elise as a nice car to have on the side. Didn’t buy one because people warned every time I brought it up as an option and said it would be a bottomless money pit. Bought a Z3 M coupe.... guess what, bottomless money pit also 😂
Guys, I think we don't get any result whyle buzz on official forum.
We need to involve in this more public resources, like reddit, change.org and and official twitter account of Fanatec, Xbox and studios who dev and publish racing game on xbox.
Series X is one of the powerful console all of time. And limited support of all wheels features on xbox affected sales by simracers.
English is not my native language, but I'm support all created topic on all social platform. We need to draw attention to this problem by Microsoft. If they call back capability certificat from Fanatec, it also be win.
P.S.
On playstation works all rumbles and switchers.
True, as soon as someone asks about future development, roadmaps or plans regarding open issues it remains awfully silent... or better said it’s ignored.
I asked developers, Dominic, support and some other people related to Fanatec about outstanding issues and as soon as future development or a timeline about open issues is brought up the conversation stops.
Apparently existing customers aren’t that important for Fanatec when it comes down to software development and DD users for example have to accept that they have a useless screen on their DD wheelbase, a screen that is sold as a feature on the product page but it in fact cripples the behaviour of the motor of the DD wheelbases.
Finally, since you really didn't contribute to the issue at hand. Just being a wiseguy.
Guys, we are losing the subject at hand. Logitech was referred to, just to point out they are capable of getting their extra button's, rev light and rotaries to work. That's the discussion, so lets stick to that. Fanatec still keeps quiet and ignores this and other issues like they are used to. I believe that is even more urgent to address. Main reason why Monik is spamming every possible thread, and me in a lesser way doing the same in a more mature way and trying to get their attention. Not very succesful however.
yeah whatever, the message was clear and Monik brought up the Logitech wheels so I contributed to the topic.
Idc about your opinion.
You only care about your own opinion, that much was clear from the start.
not really, if someone comes up with good points in his opinion Im more than open to change my mind. You on the other hand just go on my nerves now.
As said, IDC about YOUR opinion.
I still think this is a solid point and I will continue to defend it till we get a decent answer from fanatec and not one of their fan boys. And don't take this wrong, I'm a fanboy too, off their products. not of their customer service and the way they handle serious issues.
atleast on one or two points we can agree then. Issues not well handled, communication isn't great and customer service needs to get alot better overall.
You are going to grow old, gray hair (if not fallen) and walk using a stick until you will get such an answer. They will never tell you anything related to their tech stuff. Sorry.
It seems everyone is broadly accepting the main thrust of the original post.
Naturally my post brought us to the “how Logitech did it when Fanatec can’t” and “what Fanatec can do” topics - which is what we now seem to be getting caught up in, and fair enough. For me though, none of the actual technicalities matter unless Fanatec are a part of that conversation.
Rightly so, we all have our thoughts on this, and some of these may well be true: maybe Logitech are cleverer than Fanatec, their wheels are less complex making the software side easier, Logitech have better coders/resources, more money, a sympathetic ear at Microsoft, they’re making use of some kind of native higher input limit, they have a sorcerer - we won’t ever know, but whatever the real reason(s) might be, in the end, none of these thoughts explain the Fanatec reasoning provided to me and many other customers.
For me, the situation is simple: additional inputs can be achieved, and it’s now incumbent on Fanatec to confirm if they will work towards it, or provide some better answers about why they can’t achieve it, or don’t want to achieve it.
Fanatec can't even get all the features of their own products working properly. You are wasting your time here. You'd be better petitioning for more general investment in the software development, testing and support side of the business - once Fanatec are able to consistently release software that doesn't break things they could move on to extending feature sets and SDK.
At the moment development seems to be done by a couple of work experience schoolkids and testing done by a couple of well-meaning hobbyist amateurs. And the results speak for themselves.
It would be nice to see a blog post about the two things that would make the biggest improvement for customers -
1) how they will improve the support side of the business so that customers don't need to wait over a week for a reply to each email,
2) how they plan to implement a proper firmware development cycle so that we start to see regular roadmapped and properly tested new versions that start fixing the longstanding issues and don't introduce new issues.
Basic stuff, not sexy - but this is what people would value. Not a daft wheel that you can switch between your rig and your car.
But this does not seem to interest them as a company - they are consistently shortsighted, and it will backfire.
I'm 60, already grey and the kane will be needed sooner or later and I'm planning to spend my old days in your country, assuming you are Greek 😉
Something with a nail and hitting it on the head with a hammer...
Not sure why Fanatec isn't stepping up with software development, their DD bases are a wonderful piece of engineering and deserve some proper functioning software instead of the current state we are in at this moment.
Yup 😋😋
41 and getting grayer by the day.... Well.... What is left anyway.... 🤣
Fanatec should just stop soliciting to console owners. stick to the pc world. cause your just ending up with a lot of angry and dissappointed customers. yea your stuff "works" but compatible is much too strong a word for what we are getting. your talking about people spending twice as much as the damn console on your gear just to find out its nothing close to what you expected
I want to add little bit info in this thread.
In the official assetto corsa competizione forum, a member create a custom button box for xbox one console. (https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/diy-arduino-button-boxes-for-xbox-from-thread-keyboard-shortcut-for-tc-cut-increase-decrease.67454/)
He get all buttons work correctly and can adjust brake bias, ABS, TC, etc.
That mean only one — xbox support all external buttons. Developers must add support of it.
I'm not sure about display support, but buttont must work.
Yes, we buzz here, without any chance to get answer from Fanatec.
There is also evidence of other types of 3rd party peripherals being fully supported on Xbox: https://fselite.net/news/honeycomb-aeronautical-reveals-new-controls-xbox-support-and-more/ and https://twinfinite.net/2020/11/microsoft-flight-simulator-honeycomb-xbox-series-x-s/
So I contacted support to ask about this issue, and while initially responding "We regret to inform you that not all special functions of Fanatec steering wheels are currently supported by the Xbox OS (RevLEDs, Display, additional vibration motors, Multi-Position-Switches, etc.). We hope that Microsoft implements these features as soon as possible in the future."
However, as you can see in their later response, they do actually have an SDK for game developers, and even provided me a link to access it. Stating "If you want to use the Fanatec SDK please contact our support team and mention what your plans are to use the SDK. After reviewing those plans you might receive a NDA which has to be signed before the SDK would be sent to you."
I don't know much about SDKs, but clearly game developers should be making use of this. However I assume they probably are and maybe it is still limited, eg WRC9's "official" wheel is the Fanatec WRC wheel. Yet these functions don't work on xbox!
She still did not get your question, right? But when do you start the course ‘game engineering’? 😜Or shall we start a fundraise for a developer to create a sdk.
Well, another 4 months past and still no sign of a possible solution. Oh yeah, we are talking with MS on a weekly bases about this and expect MS to come with a solution soon. Yeah, right.