After some further testing I also saw the occasional "thumps" in iRacing. Probably can mitigate via FEI but I don't like how that setting dulls the FFB. I also noticed the thud noise on power off as discussed above and also noted a hotter power supply than usual... I'm going back to v346 until these issues are addressed.
So my simple question is: Why is the sensitivity different (by factor 3), although the settings are completely the same? Is there any competent developer who can explain this strange behave? Even when you can NOT explain, this issue should be at least on the known issues list.
ok now we are getting somewhere, please consider having Dom contact me or whoever as to better investigate and or trade this system in for inspection and get me a different one to see if its the same.
this wouldn't surprise me that there are issues exclusive to platform, my issue seems to be ps4 exclusive or just to me as Marcel has possibly pointed out
I am not noticing the ffb thump that people have mentioned however in both games I have major oscillation so much so if you let go its emergency button time.
NDP is at 50 and NFR at 25 and adjusting these does not remove the oscillation
INT definitely has an effect in both games and you can feel the noise below 6
With regard to the power turn off clunk - this does seem to be there but I'm not sure I ~would have noticed it if I hadn't read about it
Not used LIN or NIN as not really sure on what they do
Need to test more on the oscillatation though
EDIT - Oscillation is linked to Sensitivity - i run a very low sensitivity and the higher I make this the less the oscillation
EDIT - the ffb thump - not sure if this is the same but when certain effects take place like a hard landing or impact there is a cogging noise like a gears meshing incorrectly eminating from the base
I got mine working, I'm on a DD2. I put the recommend settings for AC and the new according to the suggestions. I find I lost quite a bit of stregth here, which I have to compensate on increasing FF. The wheel feels much lighter to turn. Feeback is excellent though!
I'm guessing 3.52 is the latest beta for CSW right? Even though there's major updates for DD's it does state in the known issues that there's a small one with the CSW wheel base.
When I move from 347 to 352 the Fanatec wheel app not longer sees the pedals, wheel base or wheel. Going back to 347 works.
If 3.52 isn't for CSW's then neither is Fanalab 1.23?
Just loaded the beta driver, haven't tested yet. Two things I'd like to ask/mention.
#1 Please post the link to this beta driver where you post all others. That is how I'm notified of new releases. I only knew about this one because I saw it posted on Facebook. Please post it here like you have before:
#2 "Added [LIN] Linearity Mode, [NIN] Natural Inertia, and [INT] FFB Interpolation to the Tuning Menu."
What do these new functions do? You only mention they are added but do not explain them. Please explain them and provide real world use for them so I can use them properly. I'm not a FFB guru, I only pretend to be.
maybe for this issue try adjusting the base to the reccomended sensitivity setting and try to adjust the advanced in game settings for your rotation angle by whatever tools available like saturation or sensitivity. Im obviously guessing on the Whatever project cars 2 calls these settings.
its also possible a setting you have adjusted in advanced settings is conflicting with this base setting?
just some thoughts?.
that is if you are trying to shorten the rotation of the wheel?
Yup that FFB thump is linked to [FEI] , go below 80 and it will get less noticeable, 90 or 100 with that beta will kick your wheelbase randomly (probably not healthy). This will appear in any Sim.
I'm going back to 335 because of that. With the 335 there is nothing like this, you can turn [FEI] up to 100 without any issue.
I did not change ingame setting and even when I use auto sensitifity the wheel reacts like hell (undriveable). I already reinstalled the driver twice (with wheel calibration). The only thing which really helps is to downgrade to 347. But as I have will get a Podium Button Modul Endurance in the next days (hopefully), going back to 347 is not an option for me. The situation is really frustrating!
if i remember correctly, pc2 reccomended base sen is 1080, then from there if it the rotation isn't quick enough , adjust the in game advanced settings.
im not a tech, just trying to think outside of the box.
edit, i see for Csw 2.5 reccomended sen is 900, but after watching your video again u have a dd, should be 1080
Hey mate, I had the same issue with my DD PS4, and it was a USB issue. I had to return the unit back to Fanatec. Mine was disconnecting from USB and locking (but telemetry would continue) every 5-6 minutes. unplugging USB and plugging back in fixed it for another 5-6 minutes. Its hardware fault
@Fanatec staff. Your help here would be greatly appreciated. My DD1 seems to dead and not working in any sim. I am hoping it’s an easy fix but growing concerned it’s a return job.
For Me this Dr/Fw combo is Brilliant... Yes I feel a little thump every Now and then but IMO its Nothing that's gonna break or Damage the wheel....
The FFB Fidelity and Overall feel is Greatly Improved and Far beyond any other Dr/Fw to date....I recommend all with DD wheel try it, Start with your regular basic setting, Learn the New settings adjust them accordingly to compliment you basic settings, Adjust In game settings as Needed if Needed.
The New Fw/Dr with the New RRE and ACC update is just WOW!!!
I've just updated to the new drivers/firmware and new version of Fanalab. No problems with the installation at all and everything is working just fine. More importantly...
This really is a major performance upgrade. No doubt I'll be fiddling with the settings and fine-tuning everything for some time, but I can already feel a big step up in fidelity and response. It's like getting a new hi-fi and suddenly hearing all sorts of new sounds in music you thought you were already 100% familiar with, or getting new glasses and seeing details you couldn't pick out before.
Seems like another noob error from me. Motor firmware needed updating and i had forgotten about the Fanatec Wheel Properties App that could update this. This functionality should be added into Fanalab.
Well a number of folks have asked this question before me and have given Fanatec ample opportunity to provide a formal answer to this serious concern and it is clear-- they will not address this officially because this is a BETA and BETA is "USE AT YOUR OWN RISK". Furthermore, this is a software thread that addresses the feature and function of software interaction. If you want a hardware explanation, you're probably going to need to deal with the webshop e-mail address.
Motors will vibrate or "thump" under abnormal conditions. The fact of the matter is, I completed my post-grad in electrical engineering at MIT and am an IEEE Fellow. That means nothing, there are a lot of smart people on this forum but there are also a lot of non-technical people also. I happen to know a few things about electric motors BUT I am far from being an expert. Vibration can result from one or a combination of factors that include: electrical unbalance, mechanical unbalance, and resonance. From the engineering perspective, absolutely when there is mechanical contact that results in audible noise (i.e. thumping), damage will result. From the business perspective, it is likely you will need to thump the motor beyond its intended product lifecycle. In short, because it is likely that most people will only keep their DD's for up to 10 years or less, you should be able to Thump your DD without really diminishing its useful life but there is a caveat I will elaborate on regarding operating temperature. DD failure can be plotted on a "bell curve" and you can do your own self study on MTBF as there will be a range for when DD's will begin to fail. Since all DD's are built with the same motors, they will all fail at a similar rate assuming normal operation (Beta testing is not normal operation).
The ACTUAL question people should be asking is, "how has the software affected power management and what is the average change in temperature"? Temperature increase will ABSOLUTELY DESTROY your DD. A number of folks have provided some anecdotal evidence that their base and power supplies are warmer/ hotter. Personally, I have uninstalled 352 and reinstalled 335 prior to taking a thermographic temperature reading of the base and power supply. You should all be aware of these engineering "rules of thumb":
1) Engineers assume the lowest class motor insulation used unless the manufacturer (Fanatec) publishes this information.
2) Insulation life is discounted by 50% for ever 10 degree C rise in temperature. This means half life (10 years of intended operation becomes 5 years)
3) Temperature rise on circuits ALSO halves the life of all electrical components. If you can run your electrical circuits cooler, you prolong the service life.
I realize there are many smart girls and boys at Fanatec conducting research and analysis in their R&D. I also realize the software folks are reading these threads and they'd be talking to their counterparts about them at coffee time. I welcome them to provide a Root Cause Analysis and explanation to this matter but doing so will probably have a business consequence or at a minimum affect the reputation of their software development group.
Do you mind providing a link, screenshot or photo that shows the sentence Fanatec uses to void a wheelbase warranty when updated with Fanatec supplied beta firmware?
I DO mind. But I shall humor you. And just so that we are both crystal clear, DO NOT TWIST MY WORDS. I HAVE MADE NO EXPRESS REMARKS ABOUT FANATEC VOIDING WARRANTY.
You will need to pardon my bluntness when I tell you to either take my professional assessment or stop acting like a dullard. Your question distract from the issue at hand. Let me add, I have no legal training although I have been an expert witness and so I have limited understanding of legal proceedings in the USA. If you want to deal with RMA with Fanatec, you are more than welcome. I for one would rather not have to deal with warranty repairs or replacements. And as I have mentioned on separate occasions, READ THE T&C'S. If you were as skeptical of a private person's public service announcement to a beta test program from a company rushing out software and asking you to be their guinnea pig for free, you would be asking smarter questions. Perhaps you just clicked "Install" because, who has time to read legal agreements. Now it's time:
End-user license agreement
These license terms are an agreement between Endor AG and you. Please read them. They apply to the software you are downloading from fanatec.com, which includes the media on which you received it, if any. The terms also apply to any Endor AG
updates,
supplements,
Internet-based services,
and support services
for this software, unless other terms accompany those items. If so, those terms apply.
BY USING THE SOFTWARE, YOU ACCEPT THESE TERMS. IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THEM, DO NOT USE THE SOFTWARE.
Disclaimer of Warranty
The software is licensed "as-is." You bear the risk of using it. Endor AG gives no express warranties, guarantees or conditions. You may have additional consumer rights under your local laws which this agreement cannot change. To the extent permitted under your local laws, Endor AG excludes the implied warranties of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose and non-infringement.
Comments
After some further testing I also saw the occasional "thumps" in iRacing. Probably can mitigate via FEI but I don't like how that setting dulls the FFB. I also noticed the thud noise on power off as discussed above and also noted a hotter power supply than usual... I'm going back to v346 until these issues are addressed.
As the developers here continue to ignore my posts in respect of the sensitivity bug, I have made 2 videos so that you actually see the issue.
Podium DD1, Forza Motorsport 7, Xbox One, sensitivity 900, driver version V347:
Podium DD1, Forza Motorsport 7, Xbox One, sensitivity 900, driver version V352:
So my simple question is: Why is the sensitivity different (by factor 3), although the settings are completely the same? Is there any competent developer who can explain this strange behave? Even when you can NOT explain, this issue should be at least on the known issues list.
Your feedback is highly appreciated.
Good to know Im not the only one with higher temps, for me it only affects the driver temps though. Motor temps are the same as 346.
Is the driver the power supply brick that sits on the floor? If so, then this is where I was noticing a higher temperature than usual.
No I mean the driver temps within the wheelbase. You can check them via the OLED Display.
@Marcel,
ok now we are getting somewhere, please consider having Dom contact me or whoever as to better investigate and or trade this system in for inspection and get me a different one to see if its the same.
same issue for me. perhaps this is an Xbox One issue only .
this wouldn't surprise me that there are issues exclusive to platform, my issue seems to be ps4 exclusive or just to me as Marcel has possibly pointed out
Hi my feedback so far
DD2
Mclaren GT3 wheel
Games - Pcars 2 & Raceroom
pc driver 346
wheel base 662
motor 30
wheel 30
PC mode
Fanalabs - I do not use
Pedals - not fanatec
I am not noticing the ffb thump that people have mentioned however in both games I have major oscillation so much so if you let go its emergency button time.
NDP is at 50 and NFR at 25 and adjusting these does not remove the oscillation
INT definitely has an effect in both games and you can feel the noise below 6
With regard to the power turn off clunk - this does seem to be there but I'm not sure I ~would have noticed it if I hadn't read about it
Not used LIN or NIN as not really sure on what they do
Need to test more on the oscillatation though
EDIT - Oscillation is linked to Sensitivity - i run a very low sensitivity and the higher I make this the less the oscillation
EDIT - the ffb thump - not sure if this is the same but when certain effects take place like a hard landing or impact there is a cogging noise like a gears meshing incorrectly eminating from the base
Issue: Project Cars 2 no longer detects V3 pedals after 352.
Using DD1. V3 is connected via the DD. In 2.5 mode.
Pedals are detected and calibrated OK in the Fanatec control panel.
Working fine for me...
I got mine working, I'm on a DD2. I put the recommend settings for AC and the new according to the suggestions. I find I lost quite a bit of stregth here, which I have to compensate on increasing FF. The wheel feels much lighter to turn. Feeback is excellent though!
I'm guessing 3.52 is the latest beta for CSW right? Even though there's major updates for DD's it does state in the known issues that there's a small one with the CSW wheel base.
When I move from 347 to 352 the Fanatec wheel app not longer sees the pedals, wheel base or wheel. Going back to 347 works.
If 3.52 isn't for CSW's then neither is Fanalab 1.23?
Just loaded the beta driver, haven't tested yet. Two things I'd like to ask/mention.
#1 Please post the link to this beta driver where you post all others. That is how I'm notified of new releases. I only knew about this one because I saw it posted on Facebook. Please post it here like you have before:
https://forum.fanatec.com/discussion/601/latest-beta-drivers-bookmark-this-thread-to-be-notified-of-new-uploads#latest
#2 "Added [LIN] Linearity Mode, [NIN] Natural Inertia, and [INT] FFB Interpolation to the Tuning Menu."
What do these new functions do? You only mention they are added but do not explain them. Please explain them and provide real world use for them so I can use them properly. I'm not a FFB guru, I only pretend to be.
The new functions are explained in detail in first post... ^^ even with a graph.
maybe for this issue try adjusting the base to the reccomended sensitivity setting and try to adjust the advanced in game settings for your rotation angle by whatever tools available like saturation or sensitivity. Im obviously guessing on the Whatever project cars 2 calls these settings.
its also possible a setting you have adjusted in advanced settings is conflicting with this base setting?
just some thoughts?.
that is if you are trying to shorten the rotation of the wheel?
Yup that FFB thump is linked to [FEI] , go below 80 and it will get less noticeable, 90 or 100 with that beta will kick your wheelbase randomly (probably not healthy). This will appear in any Sim.
I'm going back to 335 because of that. With the 335 there is nothing like this, you can turn [FEI] up to 100 without any issue.
I did not change ingame setting and even when I use auto sensitifity the wheel reacts like hell (undriveable). I already reinstalled the driver twice (with wheel calibration). The only thing which really helps is to downgrade to 347. But as I have will get a Podium Button Modul Endurance in the next days (hopefully), going back to 347 is not an option for me. The situation is really frustrating!
if i remember correctly, pc2 reccomended base sen is 1080, then from there if it the rotation isn't quick enough , adjust the in game advanced settings.
im not a tech, just trying to think outside of the box.
edit, i see for Csw 2.5 reccomended sen is 900, but after watching your video again u have a dd, should be 1080
🤷♂️
Can be have an official statement on that?
Are the DD bases being damaged with this beta?
That's not something that can be ignored
+1 agree, there should be a clarification if the power off thump and the random FFB thumps while driving are possibly damaging the wheelbase.
or whether it just 'sounds bad'. An honest answer/information would be good, also for future beta testing.
Hey mate, I had the same issue with my DD PS4, and it was a USB issue. I had to return the unit back to Fanatec. Mine was disconnecting from USB and locking (but telemetry would continue) every 5-6 minutes. unplugging USB and plugging back in fixed it for another 5-6 minutes. Its hardware fault
@Fanatec staff. Your help here would be greatly appreciated. My DD1 seems to dead and not working in any sim. I am hoping it’s an easy fix but growing concerned it’s a return job.
hi there, is reverting back just a matter of uninstalling 352 and installing 346? Has the bump gone again after revering back?
For Me this Dr/Fw combo is Brilliant... Yes I feel a little thump every Now and then but IMO its Nothing that's gonna break or Damage the wheel....
The FFB Fidelity and Overall feel is Greatly Improved and Far beyond any other Dr/Fw to date....I recommend all with DD wheel try it, Start with your regular basic setting, Learn the New settings adjust them accordingly to compliment you basic settings, Adjust In game settings as Needed if Needed.
The New Fw/Dr with the New RRE and ACC update is just WOW!!!
Just My thoughts.
I've just updated to the new drivers/firmware and new version of Fanalab. No problems with the installation at all and everything is working just fine. More importantly...
This really is a major performance upgrade. No doubt I'll be fiddling with the settings and fine-tuning everything for some time, but I can already feel a big step up in fidelity and response. It's like getting a new hi-fi and suddenly hearing all sorts of new sounds in music you thought you were already 100% familiar with, or getting new glasses and seeing details you couldn't pick out before.
Thanks Fanatec. Good work!
Seems like another noob error from me. Motor firmware needed updating and i had forgotten about the Fanatec Wheel Properties App that could update this. This functionality should be added into Fanalab.
With that sorted, updates now work great.
Well a number of folks have asked this question before me and have given Fanatec ample opportunity to provide a formal answer to this serious concern and it is clear-- they will not address this officially because this is a BETA and BETA is "USE AT YOUR OWN RISK". Furthermore, this is a software thread that addresses the feature and function of software interaction. If you want a hardware explanation, you're probably going to need to deal with the webshop e-mail address.
Motors will vibrate or "thump" under abnormal conditions. The fact of the matter is, I completed my post-grad in electrical engineering at MIT and am an IEEE Fellow. That means nothing, there are a lot of smart people on this forum but there are also a lot of non-technical people also. I happen to know a few things about electric motors BUT I am far from being an expert. Vibration can result from one or a combination of factors that include: electrical unbalance, mechanical unbalance, and resonance. From the engineering perspective, absolutely when there is mechanical contact that results in audible noise (i.e. thumping), damage will result. From the business perspective, it is likely you will need to thump the motor beyond its intended product lifecycle. In short, because it is likely that most people will only keep their DD's for up to 10 years or less, you should be able to Thump your DD without really diminishing its useful life but there is a caveat I will elaborate on regarding operating temperature. DD failure can be plotted on a "bell curve" and you can do your own self study on MTBF as there will be a range for when DD's will begin to fail. Since all DD's are built with the same motors, they will all fail at a similar rate assuming normal operation (Beta testing is not normal operation).
The ACTUAL question people should be asking is, "how has the software affected power management and what is the average change in temperature"? Temperature increase will ABSOLUTELY DESTROY your DD. A number of folks have provided some anecdotal evidence that their base and power supplies are warmer/ hotter. Personally, I have uninstalled 352 and reinstalled 335 prior to taking a thermographic temperature reading of the base and power supply. You should all be aware of these engineering "rules of thumb":
1) Engineers assume the lowest class motor insulation used unless the manufacturer (Fanatec) publishes this information.
2) Insulation life is discounted by 50% for ever 10 degree C rise in temperature. This means half life (10 years of intended operation becomes 5 years)
3) Temperature rise on circuits ALSO halves the life of all electrical components. If you can run your electrical circuits cooler, you prolong the service life.
I realize there are many smart girls and boys at Fanatec conducting research and analysis in their R&D. I also realize the software folks are reading these threads and they'd be talking to their counterparts about them at coffee time. I welcome them to provide a Root Cause Analysis and explanation to this matter but doing so will probably have a business consequence or at a minimum affect the reputation of their software development group.
Do you mind providing a link, screenshot or photo that shows the sentence Fanatec uses to void a wheelbase warranty when updated with Fanatec supplied beta firmware?
I DO mind. But I shall humor you. And just so that we are both crystal clear, DO NOT TWIST MY WORDS. I HAVE MADE NO EXPRESS REMARKS ABOUT FANATEC VOIDING WARRANTY.
You will need to pardon my bluntness when I tell you to either take my professional assessment or stop acting like a dullard. Your question distract from the issue at hand. Let me add, I have no legal training although I have been an expert witness and so I have limited understanding of legal proceedings in the USA. If you want to deal with RMA with Fanatec, you are more than welcome. I for one would rather not have to deal with warranty repairs or replacements. And as I have mentioned on separate occasions, READ THE T&C'S. If you were as skeptical of a private person's public service announcement to a beta test program from a company rushing out software and asking you to be their guinnea pig for free, you would be asking smarter questions. Perhaps you just clicked "Install" because, who has time to read legal agreements. Now it's time:
End-user license agreement
These license terms are an agreement between Endor AG and you. Please read them. They apply to the software you are downloading from fanatec.com, which includes the media on which you received it, if any. The terms also apply to any Endor AG
updates,
supplements,
Internet-based services,
and support services
for this software, unless other terms accompany those items. If so, those terms apply.
BY USING THE SOFTWARE, YOU ACCEPT THESE TERMS. IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THEM, DO NOT USE THE SOFTWARE.
Disclaimer of Warranty
The software is licensed "as-is." You bear the risk of using it. Endor AG gives no express warranties, guarantees or conditions. You may have additional consumer rights under your local laws which this agreement cannot change. To the extent permitted under your local laws, Endor AG excludes the implied warranties of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose and non-infringement.
Good riddance.